Baja go fast looks - no quality or performance?

[mark]

Looking to replace a scarab and everyone keeps telling me that baja look fast but dont have the quality to back up the looks.
bad wiring
spider cracking in the gel
not real performance hulls (try formula and fountain)


I like what I see but what's the truth from the guys who own them

[ckmansell]

Truth is ALL boats get cracks in the gel. And no, Baja is not the fastest boat out there. But they can be, this goes for all boats, if you got he $$$. I think the quality is great for the dollar. No, they don't have Ostrich leather interior like Outerlimits. But they use good high quality vinyl and the overall construction is good. I am now on my 3rd one, (33 Outlaw) and have no complaints. I have been around boating all my life, I live and breath this stuff, talk boats, read boats, ride and drive boats, subscribe to all the magazines. It just kind of depends on what interests you. I see a lot of good boats out there. Formula is probably a little better as far as fit and finish. But usually priced about 25 to 30 percent higher. Not sure it is worth it. Donzi is probably one of the faster performance boats out there. This is due to a 22 degree deadrise.(less drag) But it is also a rough riding boat because of it. There are certain tradeoffs. Fountain is usually faster than a Baja with the same power. Again, more money. However keep in mind what your looking at. Lets take this example, a 35 Fountain with 500HP's will run 80 mph. But take off the 3 foot swim platform included in it's overall dimension and the 2 foot of geek beak on the nose and you have a 30 foot boat. My guess is that the new 30 Outlaw with 500HP's will top 80 also. So make sure you compare apples to apples. Hope this gives you a general overview. If you have a specific model your interested in, post it. I have or know someone who owns or has owned almost every model. I am sure we can get you some good solid info to help in your decision making process.
Curt

[bajacraig]

well said Curt, especially about the Fountains.

[Big E]

I've owned a Century and 2 Bajas, I love Bajas, I think they are great boats. I also think Formulas and Fountains are great boats too. I have 2 friends that have Fountains, one has a 38 and the other has a 29 Fever. They are built very well. The only thing I don't like about my buddies 29 Fever is that I am tall and when I am standing in the bolster seat and we hit a large wave, I have an earie feeling that I could fly out of the boat because it sits so low in the water and the top of the bolster comes up to about the middle of my butt. I feel a lot safe in my 29 Outlaw because the bolster seats come up a lot higher and the boat is deeper, but it is heavier too. In my buddies 29 Fever, I can't even sit in the cuddy without ducking down, not the case in the 29 Outlaw, there is a lot more headroom. Don't get me wrong, Fountains are extremely well built, I love them, but I like my Baja better. My buddy will tell you a different story but he is 5'-6" tall.

I think it comes to personal preference, if you like a particular boat, go for it. If it turns out to be not what you want, sell it. Get another one and go from there.

[bajacraig]

head room was a big factor in the decision between the 33 Out law and a 35 Fountain Executioner, at 6'1" I had to crawl into the cabin.

[bottomless pit]

All boats are made pretty much Hand Made from the same glass and resins, I have a new .38 Special Baja and ALL I know Is, I have more people tell me it is the prettiest Boat they have ever seen, than anything I have ever owned. :| It is hard to believe that anything that big could be that perfect. Beam is another speed parasite, and Lets face it, how often do you go full speed. Oh lets not leave out Resale!!!,
Always try to buy a boat to please yourself, after all you are the only one you have to please and you have to live with it.:o
...PIT...
:D

[TeamBajaMarine]

Pit,
Good Point...RESALE! Baja is a easy boat to resell and also holds its value.

[OUTLAW 29]

Speed??

I have a 29 Outlaw with regular production power (2 x 496HO). It will run an actual 78mph. I have pissed off a few big lead-sled Cigs and Sonics.

Tons of room in the cabin also which is good for the Mrs. I’m 6 foot tall and when I sit on the cabin couches I have 5” of space over my head. I sat in the cabin of a 30’ Cigarette Mystique a while back and had to lean my head forward – not good.

[DCH1]

My co-owners and I agree on MOST of this. I do believe that manufacturing technique will vary. And I differ on resins, which is a science where there are continuous improvements. There are lots of resins that a manufacturer can use. My sister is a Chem Engineer polmerization expert, and has given me overload on the subject. There are also lots of differences in hull design.

After spending a LOT of time looking at boats the question for me became:

Is the relative difference in quality worth the extra cost?

1) I decided that I simply was not going to pay 30% more for vacuum bagging, which is a great manufacturing technique. Look at Advantage or Avanti boats if you want a Baja-like boat using this technique, and pay 30%+ more!

2) I did NOT want a stepped hull design, so that meant I didn't NEED to pay extra for it. That meant Donzi and Formula were overkill for me. I had no desire to offshore race. I wanted a smooth, fast and stable ride more than top speed. The deep V does it for me.

3) What's more, I found that the Baja is typically much lighter than the Fountain, Formula and Cigarette boat because of their composite design hull. This is both good and bad. The hull is just as strong for the most part (some older boats are tanks, and handle like one), and you get more bang from your engines. This advantage might just outweigh the stepped hull.

But balsa core composite design was a BIG worry for me. I spent a LOT of time talking to industry pros, marine surveyors, several factories, and the journalists at "Powerboat Reports" who did a series on waterlogged composite hulls. I determined that from 2001 forward, changes in manufacturing technique and resins used (Baja now uses Hydropel brand vynl ester resin) had fixed the problems with both composites and blistering. Baja is owned by Sea Ray, which had a lot riding on getting this problem fixed.

So do your research well before deciding. There ARE differences. I simply decided that I didn't need a "gold plated" boat for it to last, perform and look great. Same with my cars. A Lincoln Town car is not a BMW, but is lasts just as long. And my Suburban 2500 will pull the boat!

Drop us a line and let us know what you decide - and why!

DCH

[TeamBajaMarine]

DCH,
Your summary is dead on! Alot of Baja owners feel the exact same way as to what you have described. Nice Job with the post!

[outlawmike]

on my third baja and not a problem yet currently 29 outlaw, have owned 98 hammer and 99 25 outlaw. love all three of them wish i still had all of them. mike

[mark]

based on the change in resin does that mean I should stay away from a pre 2001 boat?

[DCH1]

Mark:

Short answer: Not necessarily. Just do your due diligence well.

Pre-2001 Baja and Sea Ray boats are MORE succeptible to two problems (all fiberglass and cored boats are succeptible):

1) Blistering or "pimpling" of the bottom and transom Gelcoat. (See earlier threads in the "Complaints" forum.)
2) Water infiltration into balsa cores. This second problem has been greater with large Sea Ray brand, not Baja boats.

Here is what the resin change means. Pre-2001 boats from Sea Ray companies had an increased gelcoat permeability to water and greater succeptibility to UV breakdown. If your boat is dry-stored and covered with a mooring cover or racked indoors (UV has a greater negative effect on the older gelcoat material), then you may experience no problems whatsoever. Beware of storage on a bunk trailer with wet bunks due to "pimpling" under the bunks!

Many folks with Sea Ray boats experienced water saturation of the balsa coring. This caused damage requiring very expensive repairs. Baja boats are not made at the Sea Ray facility which experienced the worst of these problems. The infiltration problem seems to have been caused by a combination of poor resin saturation of the balsa and the fiberglass, and storage of the balsa before being layed up in the boat hull in a humid environment. Improper layup may also have contributed.

Note that most manufacturers have moved to cored hulls becasue they are less expensive to make, very strong, and much lighter than solid fiberglass.

Baja and Sea Ray have changed other things in their manufacturing processes also. You will find a thread on this board where I was informed by folks here about Baja's changes in their "chop guns" and in the gun maintenance to improve resin saturation of the "chop". This because the fibers will act as water capillaries if they are not fully saturated! This is one area where the vacuum bagging hull manufacturing process has some basic advantages. And clearly changes to insure low humidity storage of raw materials prior to use in the assembly shops is very important.

The bottom line is this:

a) With ANY cored boat (balsa or foam), be careful about chips in the hull. Fix things properly and immediately. This goes for post-2001 cored boats as well.

b) When buying used boats, have a competent marine surveyor with a moisture meter go over the entire hull and report blisters or variations in moisture readings. Don't buy a boat with these problems. Post-2001 boats CAN have manufacturing defects as well, so take care in your due diligence.

Hope this helps.

DCH